The Mets Police

Continuing a walk through the archives...from 4/9/09...should the Mets retire 16, 17 and 18?

In Newsday this morning, Jim Baumbach proposes that the Mets retire the numbers of Dwight Gooden and Darryl Strawberry

My initial reaction was, "No way!  Teams retire too many numbers as it is!  Let's not retire everyone!  It's a special thing!"

Then I thought more.

The top two complaints about Citi Field are obstructed views (which hasn't even begun to reach the levels of complaining it will once people sit in their "real" seats) and that there's not enough Mets stuff at Citi Field.

About that he's right, and so I agree - let's hang some numbers on the fence.   I just think he has the wrong numbers.

Let's start with the first choice.   17.

I cringe any time I see someone else wearing Keith Hernandez's number.   He was The Captain.  He was the one who taught us how to win.   He was a great player, a great New Yorker, and has a constant long-term presence with the club.   He'll never make the Hall of Fame, but he's one of the greatest Mets of all time.   17 should be next.

Doc Gooden's #16.   My initial reaction was no.   Gooden had a few great years, and some ok years later - but he never won 300 like was destiny.  He didn't even win 200.

However, Gooden is like the ex-girlfriend you just can't get out of your system.  No matter how much he hurts us, we always long for what could have been.

It has been 23 years since the 1986 Mets, it's time to start honoring them.   Later in the summer, after Keith Hernandez day, let's welcome back Gooden and hang the 16 on the fence.

Plus, I can pretend it's for Lee Mazzilli.

Finally, Strawberry's 18.  I'm going to say no.

Even when Darryl was here, he was talking about how he couldn't wait to get to LA.  It was all he talked about.   I can't do this revisionist history and pretend he loved us.  When I think of him today I actually picture him as a Yankee!    He's one of our heroes...but he doesn't deserve to be on the fence.

Mike Piazza's #31.   We all know this one's coming.  Let's just get it up there.  We can tell Fred Wilpon he was a Dodger.

Baumbach makes a good case.  Check it out.

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Here's some good News: Keith Hernandez will be back in 2010.

I love Keith's "I barely want to be here" vibe.  It's so cool.

Hey what does it mean that I was dreaming that I was sitting in good seats at Citi in 2010 but that I had an obstructed view?  Yeah folks, I actually dream about this stuff.

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Neil best casually slipped this in, in an article about Keith Hernandez's commute:

Mostly, he keeps to 80 mph or less in a Mercedes built to go far faster and studies the psychology of LIE exit numbers.


Any Suffolk police or state troopers out there?  Can I drive 80 on the LIE too or do I need to win an MVP for that perk.  I think we need some real Mets police on the scene.

Neil's article can be found here if you can be bothered to put up with the horrible new design on Newsday.com (owned by the Dolans).



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You have to listen to this interview, go 23 minutes in.  Keith Hernandez was on WNYC's Leonard Lopate show and said the following:

"The core Latin players didn't like Willie."

"All of a sudden Jerry Manuel comes in and it's like someone turned a lightswitch on and all of a sudden Delgado's out of a slump and Reyes is playing like heck..."

A tip of the blue Mets hat to Mets Today who I think had this first, and another tip to Joe for putting this on my radar.

I'm not sure what to make of it but it's interesting.   

Did they not like Willie because what - they didn't think he was a good manager?  Do the "core Latin players" hang out together?  I don't even know (nor care) what box Jerry Manuel checks on his census form.  Do they like Jerry better because of his census form?  Because he threatens to stab them?   He lets them eat ice cream between games of doubleheaders?   Is there something racist going on - or is it just four guys who happen to have ancestors from lands that speak Spanish decided that they didn't want to play hard for Willie. I'm a "core Caucasian fan" and I wanted Willie gone too.  Is it as simple as that David Wright was willing to play for Willie, and everyone else in the core was "Latin."

I'd love to know what Keith was getting at.  

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Hey, a day for Keith Hernandez! What an awesome idea! Maybe the Mets could debut Fernando Tatis's new #71 jersey (black) that day. @metspolice

In Newsday this morning, Jim Baumbach proposes that the Mets retire the numbers of Dwight Gooden and Darryl Strawberry

My initial reaction was, "No way!  Teams retire too many numbers as it is!  Let's not retire everyone!  It's a special thing!"

Then I thought more.

The top two complaints about Citi Field are obstructed views (which hasn't even begun to reach the levels of complaining it will once people sit in their "real" seats) and that there's not enough Mets stuff at Citi Field.

About that he's right, and so I agree - let's hang some numbers on the fence.   I just think he has the wrong numbers.

Let's start with the first choice.   17.

I cringe any time I see someone else wearing Keith Hernandez's number.   He was The Captain.  He was the one who taught us how to win.   He was a great player, a great New Yorker, and has a constant long-term presence with the club.   He'll never make the Hall of Fame, but he's one of the greatest Mets of all time.   17 should be next.

Doc Gooden's #16.   My initial reaction was no.   Gooden had a few great years, and some ok years later - but he never won 300 like was destiny.  He didn't even win 200.

However, Gooden is like the ex-girlfriend you just can't get out of your system.  No matter how much he hurts us, we always long for what could have been.  

It has been 23 years since the 1986 Mets, it's time to start honoring them.   Later in the summer, after Keith Hernandez day, let's welcome back Gooden and hang the 16 on the fence.

Plus, I can pretend it's for Lee Mazzilli.

Finally, Strawberry's 18.  I'm going to say no.

Even when Darryl was here, he was talking about how he couldn't wait to get to LA.  It was all he talked about.   I can't do this revisionist history and pretend he loved us.  When I think of him today I actually picture him as a Yankee!    He's one of our heroes...but he doesn't deserve to be on the fence.

Mike Piazza's #31.   We all know this one's coming.  Let's just get it up there.  We can tell Fred Wilpon he was a Dodger.

Baumbach makes a good case.  Check it out.

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I was feeling nostalgic, so I thought I'd invite everyone to join in and raise a Rheingold to some old friends:

To Keith Hernandez for threating to punch Jesse Orosco if he threw another fastball.

To Mike Scott for scaring the bejesus out of us.

To John Stearns, seemingly always injured and seemingly coming back in June.

To Johan Santana for the greatest pitching performance in mets history last September.

To Doug Sisk who prepared me for the ways of the 2008 bullpen.

To Lee Mazzilli for walking in the all star game and making a little boy proud.

For Tom Seaver and the stroll down the right field line opening day 83.

To Rusty Staub, shuttling between left and right.

For third baseman Gary Carter one long night in Cincy.

To Buddy Harrelson who deserves better despite his fear of coming out to the mound.

To Mad Dog Russo for killing the Mets for most of the 90s.

One for the cute ballgirl that was in the commercials with Mookie Wilson circa 1983.

To Jerry Manuel for threatening to stab Jose Reyes two minutes into his managerial regime.

For Nino Espinosa for giving up opening day home runs that let me know the Mets weren't going to win that year either.

To the 81 strike for letting me fool myself into enjoying a "pennant race" in august for a change

To the Cubsbusters and all the kids who filled the deck on that Midget Mets day doubleheader in '84.

To my dad, in my mind's eye still sitting in the box seat behind me chugging a few beers.


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Nothing grabbing me this morning.

T.O. to Buffalo.

I'm not in the mood to panic over Pelfrey.

Santana will be fine.

The Post reminds us that you can win a World Series with Hayes at third.

I gotta admit it would be hilarious if the Yankees win a World Series while A-Rod is out.

Interesting take by Raissman saying that Keith Hernandez should talk more about his drug past.   I tend to agree with Keith, we all know about it and it's what 25-30 years ago now - he's come clean (verbally and physically) - what's the point of him bringing it up during a game, so that I have to explain about another type of drug to my kid.

Page Six has a cute DiMaggio at church story.

Newsday writes more about this Lighthouse fantasy , whereas I have realized it's time to let the Islanders die.

Centerfield Maz tweaked his site and wrote about Carl Furillo.

Another quiet day in Flushing until this stupid WBC ends.


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Absurd Curse Week continues here at Mets Police.

Today's curse is not based upon Bob Murphy , Gary Cohen or even Lee Mazzilli.

I'm here to tell you about the curse of 17.

Mets and 17.  Who did you think of?

Was it Jeff McKnight or Brett Mayne?  Luis Lopez perhaps?

Was it Saturo Komiyama?   Dae-Sun Koo?

Maybe Jason Anderson?

These are the folks that have been allowed to wear the number of The Captain, Keith Hernandez.

The new park honors a bailed out bank, has a big giant soda logo in right, but nowhere on the fence is a 17.

This year, once again a journeyman ballplayer will be allowed to wear Keith's number.

This from a franchise that think it's the Dodgers, and protects the number of one of the great San Francisco Giants of all time.

You can be on 8 teams in 10 years and ask the Mets for #17 and they will hand it to you.

Keith last wore the 17 in 1989.   The last time the Mets won a series Keith was wearing the number.

It's time to hang the 17 on the fence and have Keith Hernandez day.

It's a new park.  Let's start some new traditions and start a new culture that respects the history of the Mets, not teams that split town 50 years ago.

End the Curse.  Retire #17.

(Thanks Mets By The Numbers for the awesome database).


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Willie Mays on the Mets

Keith Hernandez on the Indians

Joe Namath on the Rams

Steve Carlton on the Indians/Twins/White Sox

Jerry Rice on the Seahawks (bet you forgot that one)

And now.....Brett Favre on the Jets

Favre joins a list of once good or great players that ended their career with the wrong team, in a bad way... all because their ego was too big.

Does it diminish their achievements? Not at all. But it does stain the memory we have of their career.

Who else would you add to this list?

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I missed this one a ways back - MLB wrote about Keith Hernandez

An honor that somehow has eluded Hernandez was afforded Tom Seaver in 1988. Seaver's uniform number was retired; his 41 was put in mothballs. And the ceremony that surrounded that salute is what Hernandez embraces 20 years later.

"The greatest thing I've ever seen at Shea," is how he identifies it. It moved him, and it had stayed with him.

"Tom was so eloquent in what he said," Hernandez recalled recently. "And when he did what he did -- take off his jacket, throw one last pitch and then bow to the crowd -- it was so appropriate, and appreciated by the fans. They went crazy.

1.  Wear white pinstriped uniforms.

2.  Wear blue hats.  Just to be clear, wear blue Mets hats.

3.   Introduce Tom Seaver last.   Last.   Tom walks out to the mound in a white pinstriped #41 (vintage, no black shadows).

4.  Have Tom Seaver throw a pitch to Jerry Grote, who is also in a vintage uniform.

5.  Focus on the 1969 Mets and the 1986 Mets.

6.  Do not focus on the 2000 Mets or the Wild Card Mets.  This is a celebration of Tom Seaver and Keith Hernandez and Buddy Harrelson and Mookie Wilson.   This is not about Todd Pratt and Robin Ventura.   They can be there but it's not about them.

7.   Get Mookie Wilson to show up.  I understand he is mad at the Mets.  Just work it out.  $50,000 check, a job, a public apology - just make it happen.

8.  Get Davey Johnson to show up.   See #7.

9.  Don't let the Yankees steal what little history the Mets have.  Invite Strawberry, Gooden and Cone.   They are Mets.  Don't worry where else they played or didn't.  Invite them.

10.  Ignore everyone's warts.   Gooden, Strawberry, anyone else with personal issues - everyone is welcome.

11.  No matter what the weather is this week, make sure the final regular season game is the game people paid good money to attend at 1pm on Sunday.  If a makeup game is needed don't you dare play it Sunday night or Monday.  Get out of bed and play a split doubleheader at six in the morning.   The final game is 1pm and that's that.

12.  Surprise us with the retiring of Keith Hernandez' #17.   You can announce that it will happen next June if you need the sellout that bad, but announce it now.

13.  Play tape of the long-time PA announcer (I don't know his name) who sang Take Me Out To The Ballgame (on tape) in the 1980's and beyond.

14.  Win.

15.  Don't be eliminated.

16.  Honor Lindsey Nelson, Bob Murphy and Ralph Kiner.

17.  No Citibank executives need to be part of this.  They can throw out the ball  at game 27 next season.

18.  Mention the Jets.

19.  Invite Joe Namath

20.  Mention the Beatles.

21.  Don't have imitation Beatles make an appearance.  Focus on the Mets.

22.  Do not mention Billy Joel.  He is not a major part of Shea history despite what he's been selling.

23.  Make sure all the "right" players are there.  If you are on item #23 on a blog called Mets Police, you know who I mean.

24.  Have some of the players from the bad teams.  I want to see Joel Youngblood and John Stearns.

25.   Remember that Jackie Robinson never played for the Mets nor at Shea.   No need to turn this into a celebration of the Brooklyn Dodgers.

That's a quick 25 off the top of my head...what are your suggestions?

What a hideous blown save that was last night.  It was like the opposite of the playoff game where two runners for tagged out at home.  If the bullpen is going to blow games night after night, well then you're going to finish third.   It's not time for panic however, I was actually angrier about OverReyes wearing his hat sideways walking off the field.

I really hope Yankee's PA announcer Jim Hall is ok.  Because if anyone in their right mind thought it was a good idea to have Ed Randall be the stadium announcer for Old Timer's Day, then the ghosts won't be coming across River Avenue in 2009.    I'm going to choose to believe that Jim had sudden food poisoning and Ed Randall jumped in with 5 seconds notice.

And of course we wish Bob Sheppard well.

The Yankees had an awful lot of nobodies at old-timers day.    It was very cool to see Paulie O get the ovation he did (time to hang the 21 on the wall).  

Why can't the Mets have Old-Timers Day?   Maybe 15 years ago it was kind of lame, but now there's plenty of 86 Mets, heck even some 2000 Mets.    Surely we could welcome back our old friend Lee Mazzilli. 

Mets Old-Timers Day would be a nice occassion to retire #17.  Maybe The Former Franchise could be bothered to come by, if he hasn't planted any new vineyards.  At this point I'd just as soon not invite him.

Willie Randolph looked quite at home at Yankee Stadium as he should.  It's where he belongs.   As I've stated over and over, let the Yankees (and Dodgers) have their own history, and the Mets should acknowledge their own. 

The Olympics are sneaking up kinda quietly.   The Opening Ceremonies are Friday.   It looks like NBC's coverage will be pretty cool.  My cable system has added a few bonus Olympics channels,plus the website looks pretty beefy.    I'll be rooting for Misty May-Treanor if you know what I mean.

I'm really glad Manny is a Dodger because it means he's not a Met.   If he showed up at Shea and asked for #99 I think I'd lose my mind.

How about The Rays with a 3 game lead at the start of August.  Unbelievable.   Baseball's got a shot at the playoff teams being LAD, LAA, NYY, NYM, CHC and CHW with two others.  I hope the TAMs are there - it would be a nice story.

Mets Police is still taking suggestions for "Dopiest Moment In Shea Stadium History."  If you have any suggestions please click comments.

Good piece here about the proliferation of statues going up outside new stadiums.

Frank White outside KC's stadium?

Harold Baines outside NotComiskey?

The Steve Garvey Rotunda in Flushing?

I am rescinding my previous request for a Seaver statue at Citi Field.  Let him have one in his beloved vineyard.   We've broken up with you Former Franchise.

Let there be a statue of The Captain, Keith Hernandez - right in front of the Sandy Koufax Rotunda.

And where's my Mel Ott statue?!

Ok now that I've got your attention - the Hall of Garvey is something I invented a few years back. It's a place for really good players who ain't Hall of Famers.

Steve Garvey was the inaugural inductee.

Other names frequently nominated include Don Mattingly and Keith Hernandez. This week a friend suggested Gooden.

What say ye? Is Keith worthy of the HOG? Any other nominations?

Whoa....Gary Cohen and Keith are talking about 'roids and how it was obvious to Keith in 1989 that someone showed up way heavier...and cohen said it was obvious in 1991-92 that something was going on. Really? I don't recall hearing Gary mention this on any games when he was sitting there with Bob Murphy. Didn't the Mets play the Cardinals and Cubs a few times in the 1990's? A little late guys. You kept your mouth shut for 15 years, don't start now.

The Mets Police enjoy busting Howie's chops for claiming "about 40,000" at Shea when the stadium is clearly half empty.

You young kids probably don't recall that Howie once was the original kind of Mets Police.

He used to host Mets Extra and really give the Mets a hard time. Howie would ride them so hard that the Mets eventually forced WFAN to keep Howie away from the game adjacency, and made us suffer through someone named Todd Kalas (nepotism, look it up).

I decided to look back at Google News and remember how cool Howie was before he put on the rose colored attendance goggles. Just read these snippets and get a feel for old Howie. Howie, we miss you. Fran Healey must have stolen your spirit. At least you still hate the black uniforms.

METS' HARRELSON COULDN'T CUT IT

THE SOUND OF ALL-SPORTS RADIO IS MOSTLY ALL SNOOZE

Was watching the Yankee game in picture-in-picture while rocking out to Bruce's 1975 Hammersmith Odeon concert DVD which is just wonderful. That's "the Boss" part of this post for those of you not following along.

Meanwhile in the little box I saw something I haven't seen all year. The starting pitcher, future Hall of Famer Mike Mussina was losing, and yet he came out to pitch the 6th inning. Then the 7th. Then get this, the 8th inning!

Apparently the AL has two rules the NL doesn't. One is something called a DH. The other is that your starting pitcher doesn't have to come out before the sixth inning ends. I would have thought Willie Randolph would have been familiar with this technique from his time in the AL, but apparently not.

I was sad that Moose didn't get the win, but he should start the All Star Game, and he will wind up in the Hall of Fame. I personally don't think he should be in the HOF - I have created something I call the "Hall of Garvey" for those players that were pretty darn good, but just ain't Hall of Famers. Keith Hernandez and Don Mattingly are also first ballot Hall of Garveyers.

Somewhere during Rosalita and a Yankee rally John Maine gave up two runs.

Back again with some more thoughts on what real Mets and what "pretend" Mets are associated with each uniform number (and thereore who should take down the Shea countdown numbers). Today, with information from Mets By The Numbers, we're looking at 16 - 20, maybe the best group of numbers so far.

16
Rightful Owner(s): Lee Mazzilli & Dwight Gooden
Rent-A-Met(s): Derek Bell & Paul LoDuca
Comment: Two of the all-time favorites wore this number and yet the Mets continue to let others wear it? I'm not saying it should be retired, but Derek Bell? Angel Pagan is wearing it now which will change once Lee takes over as manager.

17
Rightful Owner(s): Keith Hernandez
Rent-A-Met(s): Bret Saberhagen
Comment: Yes I know Keith won his MVP and made his bones with the Cardinals - but he was the Captain. It's a shame that 15 other guys have worn the number since.

18
Rightful Owner(s): Darryl Strawberry
Rent-A-Met(s): Moises Alou
Comment: Joel Youngblood gets a nod here as well, but Darryl will always be 18. On a side note I have really been enjoying his in studio work on SNY.

19
Rightful Owner(s): Ron Gardenhire
Rent-A-Met(s): Bobby Ojeda
Comment: OK, so Gardenhire was a stretch and with his work managing in Minnesota clearly makes him more oa Twin than a Met now. Ojeda was a Red Sox that the Mets rented, period.

20
Rightful Owner(s): Tommie Agee & Howard Johnson
Rent-A-Met(s): Shawn Green
Comment: This is a great number with both real mets contributing to the only World Series victories for the Mets. I'd give Agee the nod to take down the game number though.